Listen to Episode Two: “Am I What I Don’t Eat – Eating Disorders, Sisterhood, and Heart”
Speakers: Minah Lee, Jie Wang, Ying Wang
Content Warning: This episode includes descriptions of eating disorder behaviors and discussions of suicide.
YING: And I remember the first night she arrived, we add a mattress in my bedroom. She was very happy lying on the mattress and said, “Oh family, I have a family now.”
JIE: I remember I said that was the most comfortable bed I’ve ever had.
[00:41] MINAH: Welcome to In Tanglement by Cinevolution, a grassroots, women-led, migrant-driven film and media arts organization situated on the occupied, traditional, and ancestral territories of the hǝn̓q̓ ǝmin̓ ǝm̓ speaking peoples, including the xʷməθkwəy̓əm and other Coast Salish peoples, also known as Richmond, BC.
My name is Minah Lee. I’m a first generation immigrant settler hosting this podcast from the unceded territory of the Snuneymuxw First Nation, colonially known as Nanaimo, on Vancouver Island. In Tanglement is a six episode series on art, culture and race in today’s world. Through intimate conversations with artists, filmmakers, and community organizers, we explore current experiences and perspectives from the Asian diaspora.
Today’s episode is Am I What I Don’t Eat: Eating disorders, sisterhood and heart. We’ll be delving into complex issues of mental health, identity, cultural and physical symptoms, and the healing journey through the heartwarming relationship between the two artists behind the 2005 film, Sisters. This episode includes descriptions of eating disorder behaviors, and discussions of suicides.
Here’s an excerpt from the synopsis of the film. In a single apartment in an unnamed city, two sisters are living together. The younger sister, Ping, is struggling with a severe eating disorder. She came to stay with her older sister Ming, with the hope to save her out of the mental illness that is drowning her life. As Ping continues to struggle with anorexia and bulimia, Ming slowly becomes obsessed with her own looks, and begins to identify with her sister.
I’m delighted to be with our two guests today. Ying Wang and Jie Wang. Ying is the director, writer and producer of the film Sisters. Jie, who also goes by Jojo is Ying’s collaborator, and the co-writer, actor, and producer for the film. Welcome Ying and Jojo.
YING: Thank you, Minah, and the team at Cinevolution that give us this chance to talk about this first film we made together. That was over a decade ago. And yeah, and thanks for your interest in this old film.
MINAH: Oh, of course. You say it’s old, but it seems like the effects of the film still remain, and it’s very alive. So it’s an honour to have you here. And Ying is also the co-founder of Cinevolution Media Arts Society, so you’re very special to us! [Laughs] And you’re a very important filmmaker. So Ying, we want to know a little more about you.
YING: I came to Canada as an international student first, and then became a self taught filmmaker. After I came here, I was accepted in the master program at Asian studies of UBC, but I didn’t like the program and I wanted to start a film. So I applied for their film program, but I wasn’t accepted. After receiving the rejection letter, I said to myself, “Okay, that’s fine. No matter what, you have to make a film in your lifetime.” So actually, the rejection letter gave me a lot of motivation.
And also before I came to Canada, I already started interested in the issue about eating disorders, because my– Jie– my younger sister, she developed this severe eating disorder symptom after immigrate to the United States, with my mom and to reunite with my father, who actually left us 10 years before. Jie and my mom immigrated to the United States in 1993. And then in 1996, they came back and I got to know, Jie had this big problem. So actually, before I came here, I wrote a script about two girls who had this eating disorder. And then before I could finish the script, I was accepted by the university and I got my student visa. And at the end of 1996, I also left China– came here.
The idea to make a film about this issue became something really haunting me to the point that I really couldn’t really focus on any master program study. I just wanted to make a film and I wanted to make this film. Yeah, I think that’s how everything started.
MINAH: Yeah, that’s a very special personal bio, and gives so much of the context for our conversation today. Jojo, would you like to introduce yourself?
JIE: I came to US as a– basically a clueless kid. I just felt, yeah, there’s something fun, I can go to United States. So after I came here, I just realized life is not as I thought, in the US.
Before I was teenager, I was a tomboy, I was playing with boys and I was climbing trees. I never paid attention to my look and my body. But when I trying to– teenager, I start dating a boy, and I start pay attention to my body– to my look. And after a few of the friends and the family made a comment on my tomboy-type of looking and never care about my body, it kind of like shocked me at the moment. So I started to feel that if I want to keep my boyfriend, I better become a nicer lady looking girl. So I started trying to lose weight.
At beginning was pretty healthy way of losing weight. I cut down a lot of food and do a lot of exercise. But at that time, I had no idea what eating disorder was, until I came to the US. Between left the country, left family, left my boyfriend, and came to a country with totally different culture, and I know nobody. On top of that, my parents went through divorce, which I would never ever thought it would happen, in my mind. That really shocked me. And I start torturing myself. I basically using not eating, continue losing weight to torture myself, because I have nowhere to let my anger go and I have nowhere.
[09:26] MINAH: You can slow down. It seems like your story of departure and arrival and your eating disorder is so much of your identity that I’m really appreciating your generosity to have that as your introduction and for our conversation. So, you made this film together with those struggles you share as actual family members and collaborators of this film. It’s a very compelling story, and as you just briefly shared, so much of it actually has your own story. Why did you two want to make this film together?
YING: So, actually, at the beginning, I didn’t think I would make this film together with my sister. But after I came to Canada, I quickly understand the situation she had been living as an immigrant in a new country. So we wasn’t very close before, actually, and since our childhood, we grew kind of apart, because I always feel we were so different. But, actually after came here, I started talking with her on the phone more often. And we started sharing our emotion and our experience living in two countries. And then we became very close, emotionally.
And then, in 1998, I had the first time to visit United States and to visit her. During that time, she was living in Boston, by herself in a basement. I remember the night I enter into her place. It was very simple. There was just a mattress laying on the floor. And the kitchen– the oven was covered by her cooking oil. It was simple, and it was very dirty. I didn’t expect that she actually– she was living in this kind of– such an environment, in such a situation. And I cried that night. And I think that was the first time I cried for her.
At that time, in order to make a living, she was working in two restaurants. So during the day, she worked in the restaurant. And after the work, she came back and she started to– playing with food, to have this binge eating and then to vomit. That happened almost every day. And it was quite a shock to see.
After coming to the United States, she had been caught up in this eating disorder behaviour. She never really had a chance to travel. So I said, “Okay, let’s travel together.” So she quit her job, and that was a summer holiday, so we went on the road in her small car. So we went to see the Niagara Falls. And we went to Washington, DC to hang out in the museum, and then New York. We also went to South, to Atlanta, also to South Carolina. That was the first place she landed with my mother.
And during the trip, when we slept together, and she often, you know, lying her head on my shoulder, you know, just like a little girl. And suddenly, I had this kind of motherly love and, I just feel I really want her to become happier and to become stronger. So that was the first trip. And indeed, she became so hopeful for life.
So at the end, I had to come back to Canada, and she decided to move back to South Carolina because she wanted to resume her school there. So we made all this beautiful plan. And we parted. And then the second time I met her, that was almost three years later. That was in 2001. I went to South Carolina to attend her graduation ceremony. And when I saw her I was surprised that she became even more skinny.
And I went to her place and the same. The mattress was on the floor, and the kitchen was covered by cooking oil. And I found more scars on her hand. And one of her teeth were already rotten because of the vomiting. And during that time I started to use video to record her life. And we had a very long conversation about her childhood and her frustration during the growing up, and her suffering, her struggle with an eating disorder and what this behaviour really about. We had a very, very open conversation in front of camera. And one clip actually was used in the actual film.
And then we went on a trip again. Before I came back to Canada, she cried, and begging me to stay. She constantly said, “I’m scared.” And she told me that the struggle has become so deep to the point that sometimes she started thinking up to end her life. So after that trip, I decided she couldn’t live alone anymore, any longer. And we had to live together. So at the beginning of 2002, she drove her little car across United States, and came to Vancouver.
And the original idea, actually, that she would go to the Seattle to find a job, so we could live closer. But after she entered my apartment, she couldn’t leave it anymore. And I remember the first night she arrived, we add a mattress in my bedroom. She was very happy lying on the mattress and said, “Oh family, I have a family now.”
JIE: I remember I said that was the most comfortable bed I’ve ever had.
YING: Yeah, and then I wanted to help her. But once we really started living together, I really got to know what eating disorder is. And it was very, very tough. And I also decided to quit UBC because I feel that the whole program wasn’t anything I want. Like the degree, it’s– I want nothing about that. I also went through the divorce. That also became a very difficult time for me. So we both together went to China briefly. And after I finished my divorce we came back together and then we went on another– on the third trip together.
So we drove all the way to Inuvik, and that was amazing trip. It’s the first time I’d really got to see the vast, beautiful landscape in Canada. We made friends with the First Nations and with a lot of young people who also travel around like us, and to really have a deeper understanding of the culture, especially up North, there. And we actually started talking about the film– making a film during the trip, and after came back we thought, “okay, so maybe we should make the film together. And the film should be a story about us.”
[20:01] MINAH: Yeah, that’s amazing. It seems like a lot of things that happened in your life just made that domino effect to lead both of you to make this film together. And all of this was a natural trust building process. So I can really appreciate that it’s a such an important film in your life and also influenced many other people.
JIE: Actually, making the film to me, it’s kind of challenge, because I’ve been hiding myself from everyone, hiding myself– hiding real me, hiding my illness, beside my family member. No of my friends or no of other people know about it. I still remember a lot of time that when we’re having dinner in a restaurant or when we have gathering with friends, I don’t eat, I didn’t eat. And of course, all the friends was just try to help me eat more and just sometimes make some jokes. But at that time, it kind of really made me uncomfortable. So actually, making this film, basically to me is that I have to open myself, open my illness, open the darkest side of me, to everyone. Not even my friends, but to the people who watch the film.
At beginning, when we making this decision it’s very hard for me. But at that time, I know that I’ve been trying to survive for more than ten, fifteen years, and I successfully survived, but wasn’t happy and wasn’t healthy. So I don’t know what I can do to continue, live. So I think at that time, to me, this is one opportunity for me to do something meaningful. And maybe for the people who struggles with the same issue, possible, watch the film can give them some help, or give them some courage to continue live. And that time, my only hope was my sister. And she’s been taking care of me for a long time. And even throughout I was in South Carolina, we were not live together. But she was the one that really keep me alive, through the phone calls, through the emails that keep encouraging me to stay alive, and to see the beauty of the world. And I think that’s the most important reason that a few times I tried to kill myself never successful, because I haven’t given up yet. So I think when we were living together, and when we’re talking about making this film, I think, for me, it’s an opportunity to stay alive and possible can help me overcome my own problem. And possible, healing from that. Yeah, that’s about it.
[24:03] MINAH: Yeah, I’m really glad that you took that courage to come to that world of visibility and wanting to help other folks suffering from the same causes and conditions. You made fiction with a very strong documentary element. You played the character, Ping, who suffers from eating disorders, and you even wrote what Ping says, as a writer. That’s a great accomplishment as an artist and working on the film for the first time. Is the character’s relationship to food, actually very similar to that of yours as well?
JIE: First of all, most of the story in the movie are based on my real story. So the relationship with food, only worse in real life than on the movie. It’s kind of addiction. So at the beginning, it was just to try to lose weight. But by certain point, you couldn’t even help yourself. And I still remember at first when I was trying to lose weight, I give myself– my goal is certain pounds. But when I reach to that point, I just wanted to keep going down and down. I basically scale myself a million times a day. Even I drink a sip of water, I would go scale myself. See if I gain any weight. So from the beginning, maybe it’s just relationship with food. But go deep, it’s basically an addiction. So food is just a role played in this disorder. Yeah, I think that’s it.
YING: I want to add more about eating disorders. So the cause is this distorted, you know, what you think your body, the shape of your body and with your self identity. So normally that’s the key trigger. And there’s always this blame or criticism on the media. You know, the thin body shape– the ideal body shape shown in the media and how that influences people’s way of looking at themselves.
JIE: Yeah, now the time, social media plays a huge role. But I think in general, all medias play a big role in affecting– especially affecting younger generation. What they see on media, now more like a social media, is what they believe. I still remember back then, when I first came to North America. At that time, I had no idea what eating disorder was. But on the TV commercials, it kind of make me feel confused. So one commercial is McDonald food or ice cream. Next commercial would be a diet program. And then, next commercial would be some fashion models for some clothing brand. So all this kind of mixed image is one of the very confusing factor for young people. They don’t know what they’ve been taught.
YING: And also, eating disorder is one of the mental illness that has the highest death rate because of the lack of nutrition. So some of the deaths come from the failure of heart. I remember after Jie came to live with me, many many times, especially in the morning, she woke up and she would feel the weak of her heartbeat. And she always say to me, “Oh, I feel my heart cannot beat anymore.” So once the symptoms developed into addiction, it’s very dangerous.
CLIP FROM Sisters: 你難道真想死嗎？你真的不想活了嗎？
[29:07] MINAH: I want to talk a little bit about, also, Ming, who’s the older sister character in this film, and just begins living with the younger sister, Ping– tries hard to help her sister and saves her from the suffering, just as you did in your real life. Ming studies about anorexia. Let’s talk about this scene that seems to hold a big significance for the entire film. So in this film later, Ming sees the poster distributed by an eating disorder support group and passes that on to her sister, but she later discovers that the group was a pro-anorexia cult. And Ying, as you mentioned before, about the whole media’s influence in this globalized eating disorder, mental illness, do you actually simulate the effort and frustration you experienced while you were researching and studying this disorder?
YING: In a way it is, but also in a way that also shows my understanding of this problem. So during the whole process of research, I encountered one book called Fasting Girls: The History of Anorexia. In the book, she traced to a girl who died of eating disorder in 1895. And there’s an image of this girl. And then I found her image in a couple of pro eating disorder website group. And those group were organized by these girls. They pray to her, as well as some other images. And they create this– they call it thinspiration photo. And they claimed to be a eating disorder is a lifestyle, and it needs courage, because it’s courage that you to be yourself. In the film, Ping cries out, “I have nothing but anorexia left. All these years, it’s been the only thing that gives me security. It’s like my companion. Without it, I won’t know how to go on living.” That’s the real quote from Jie in real life. And she asked me, “What will I be if I don’t have this eating disorder?” So then I realized that it’s really become their identity. And I think in life we all need an identity to associate.
CLIP FROM Sisters: 我什麽都沒有，只剩下這個病了。這麽多年，只有和他在一起，我才有安全的感覺。
[33:03] MINAH: It was very compelling moment that I also remember from the film, Ping was talking about, you know, “Without it, I’m just nothing or nobody.” The way I felt was that you really discovered each other through this filmmaking process, and within the film, the character Ming and Ping discovers one another as well. So I wonder, did this filmmaking process change your relationship to yourself and with each other?
JIE: Yeah, I don’t really think making this film changed our relationship. But I think since Ying came to North America, our relationship already changed. Because one thing I’ve never even told Ying and I’ve never told my mom either, but my mom is a really independent woman, and her child would never experience the mother love in her life. So she never able to give us the normal mother love. She loves us. I know she loves us to death. But when you’re a kid, those kinds of mother love, we’ve never experienced from my mom. When we– both in North America, and through all the phone calls, emails from my sister’s voice, I just felt that– the love that I’ve never had before. I become more closer to her than even my mom. And of course, I trust her for anything. Yeah.
YING: Like how the film helped you to really started to want to recover? You know, at the– before making the film you hesitate to recover, right? Because you don’t know who you will be.
JIE: Yeah, I think just as you guys discovered– discussed earlier, that while I was really deep in the eating disorder, I just really felt just like in the film. Without it, I really don’t know what I can do because I basically hiding myself from anything. I think now when I say it, maybe to you guys, it’s kind of like a joke, but I came here pretty early in 1993. In South Carolina, all the people around me were top students from China. So among all those Chinese friends, make me feel that I also want to do something make me– make my country proud. I think now, nobody would even think that, but at that time I go, I went to school, and I tried my best to be the top student in a class. And I have those kinds of patriotic type of thinking, that I want to make people think Chinese people are hardworking and great people. So that my thought, for going to school, and of course, I have to work to support myself. But besides that, inside of me, it’s really empty. I don’t really know what else I can do, really, who I was.
But from making this film, through all the process, I got a lot of trust from my sister. Even though I know at that time, for my situation, nobody would trust me. But my sister trust me with a lot of work, trust me handle something on myself. So those really started building my self confidence. One time that after film was made, and our film accepted for one of the very small film festival in Georgia, she trusts me enough to let me go to the film festival, represent our film. That’s a really great encouragement for me to give myself credit, and make myself feel that I can do something other than just struggle inside of the eating disorder. I think that’s a really first step for me to start recovering from eating disorder. Yeah.
[38:08] MINAH: Thank you for sharing that healing journey, and also very personal story about the motivation you had as a new immigrant and international student, and the pressure you went through. That makes me or so think about Ying’s recent film. From making this film Ying often discuss very complex connections between immigration and mental health challenges. And in this– your recent documentary film, The World is Bright, you more extensively brings up those kinds of issues through a story about a new immigrant and his family’s legal and emotional battles within the– more of a Canadian immigration system and racism, that is also distinctly different from United States. Jojo, in Sisters, both characters go through their own challenges as new immigrants as well. So do you both think immigration experience can make eating disorders worse?
JIE: For me, I think the homesick culture shocking.
JIE: Cultural difference, I think that could make it worse.
MINAH: Also your desire to be seen by the new society in a specific way. And with your perfectionism, you wanted to be doing very well, achieving very well and being perfect.
JIE: Now I’m more like that. But back then– I guess, for me is like, now, culture difference is not huge for the new immigrants now. But when I came to US, that was early 1990s. I wasn’t good student while I was in school, and I hate hard memory. So of course, my English was terrible before I came to the US. Especially when I landed in South Carolina, barely any Asian or Chinese people there. So I had a very hard time to communicate with people. One of the torture I gave myself is that I spent day and night just sit there learning English. So that’s basically just have something– same as not eating or just torture myself. And away from family, away from relatives, especially back then. If I want to make a phone call to China, that’s two US dollars per minute. Not like now, we can get free call or get on WeChat or all kinds of platform. But if we write letter, it would be a month, you can get a return letter from China. I think that’s all the cause for me to just make the eating disorder even worse. Yeah.
[41:32] MINAH: Thank you so much for sharing those memories, and I don’t want you to re-traumatize yourself, but you as an artist making art and also talking about art and sharing your life, I admire that courage. And that makes me wonder, when you shared this film, with your community, back home and in the States and Canada, what was the response?
JIE: When we almost finished editing the film, I just took a trip to Tibet, just a backpack and just by myself just took the train, went to Tibet. I had a great time. During that time, my sister was in Beijing and there was a TV station, CCTV, I think, interviewed my sister about this film. And it played on the TV while we were still in China. And I got tons of my friends texting me and calling me and message me, said that. Of course, I was really scared. I was really scared of the people I know. Or my childhood friend know. As deep as the film was talking about of my life, but my relatives and my friends reached out and all the positive feedback and encouragement. So that’s one thing really keep me going. Yeah.
MINAH: Thank you for that. Yeah, I’m glad you regained your community and they were really supportive of you.
JIE: I was the lucky one, that I surround with lovely people and supportive people. Yeah, I’m really lucky.
[43:38] MINAH: Ying, do you want to add anything about immigration and mental health?
YING: I wasn’t really aware of this connection, while making Sisters. But just based on the personal experience of the coming here, the isolation, the stress, and then I became more understanding of her situation. It’s not directly relate to whether you can speak the language or not. It’s more like you are out of your own life circle, so whether you can find that new belongings in this new place. And also particularly for young people from Asia, it was the same before, even more now, is international students, we’re always aware of this higher expectation from our families, like what Shi Ming had.
And then another thing is the family support. But for people who don’t have this network support, it’s basically you are struggling on your own. And this support is not only that, okay, someone tell you “you should go to see doctor” or “you should eat your pill.” It’s this caring, this is loving, or the environment that you can relax. So that’s why when Jojo came back to China– even she still had this problem, but every time she came back to China, she would actually become better, like her whole mental illness situation would become better. Same with Shi Ming. And after he went back to China twice, he became hopeful. That’s why the second time he wanted come back to Canada to restart life, because he regained some stress from that familiar environment. But then after coming here, they both, Jojo and Shi Ming, they both lost that support again, and then their mental illness or relapse of this connection is through making The World is Bright.
[46:11] MINAH: There is something about that disappointment that occurs when those people come back to the culture and the big presence of that power dynamic that is not balanced, not equal. And then there’s something about that illusion of freedom that people experience. It makes me think about your struggle between two cultures, Ying. So in this film, it was so much fun to watch this scene.
CLIP FROM Sisters: Beautiful, beautiful. Unbelievable!
MINAH: Ming who appeared to be very controlled and confident about herself at first became profoundly confused and troubled. So on the one hand, trouble was worsened by this witnessing her sister, but on the other hand, her experience of the Western culture exacerbated her confusions. So what do you want to express or communicate with the audience through this drunken dance scene?
[Music clip from The Internationale by Tang Dynasty]
YING: During that time, I quit UBC and I quit this model family life. So basically, I quit everything I had, as a socially accepted person. And then I really become self doubting. So in the role of Ming, I put a lot of self doubt, self questioning, and then the criticism of all this social value I carried with me. So there’s two dancing sequence in the film. And the one is they were listening to classical Chinese music, played by guqin.
The music came from guqin is considered the highest for the Chinese traditional, like, intellectuals, that represent the highest standard of art, as well as moral in Chinese culture. And Ming, actually, expressed how much influence he had. It doesn’t matter if she is a woman. It’s just like my mom, and my grandmom. They were all– for their whole life, they try to live to that model. I grew up with this kind of education. And at that time, I definitely, I seriously questioned that.
And then in the second dancing sequence– that was a song we sang during the Tiananmen movement. Because I was in the university, I was among the students protesting on the square, to fight for democracy. And the version I played in the– I used in the film was from the very early famous rock band in China, right after the Tiananmen movement. And the band name is called Tang Dynasty. So this is their first rock and roll version of this famous revolutionary song.
Before the dancing, Ping said, “We’re in a free world already. Where can we escape?” So it is in a way to really show the disillusion, but at the same time is not directly target to the Western culture. It doesn’t matter in Western culture or Eastern culture, what I was aware of was this constant struggle between the individual and the dominating value system. And what’s real freedom? What’s liberation really mean? Also the transformation of Ming in this film, from so confident to then become so confused. I also want to show the vulnerability of everyone, because we’re in this constant struggle. And everyone, we are on this continuum, right?
[Rapid, rhythmic drumming]
[51:25] MINAH: Those are great questions. And yeah, that makes me think about another scene that I really liked. This, Ping’s, silent drum playing scene where Ping imitates drumming motion without beating the drum, after her neighbour complains about her joyful drumming in this apartment. And I felt that there’s something about the importance of creative expression and tension between that and social expectations or censorship. So each of you well, especially Jojo, do you feel like you expressed everything you wanted to express in this film?
JIE: Yeah, I think mostly. But I think when we were making this film, I was still in the very early age of recovery, from eating disorder. Of course, a lot of things happened after the film, that make me healthy and happy now, so the film wasn’t able to include, but yeah, for that period of time.
[52:36] MINAH: It always takes time. I think you also had many talkbacks and community gatherings where you wanted to really help the community members who are struggling. So did the experience as a whole shift your attitude towards the world, kind of your openness?
JIE: Yes. I think that’s really the first step that I opened myself to the world about this problem. So I think after that, I met a few people that had had light symptom, not as serious as I was. So I think after making the film, I was able to openly tell them my experience, hopefully that would be the help for them as well.
[53:30] MINAH: Do you have something you want to say to someone who is suffering from eating disorder right in this moment?
JIE: I think I learned the most is that– first of all, never give up on yourself. Don’t listen to anybody tell you what you should be. Just try to be yourself. Doesn’t matter if you’re fat, you’re thin, you’re tall, you’re short, you’re good looking, or you might not that good looking. But who you are is the best.
MINAH: Thank you so much.
YING: Yeah, so after we finish the film, we had a public screening in May 2005 with another documentary. The theme of the screening is two films on the body of Chinese women. The other documentary is also made by a Chinese Canadian filmmaker. It’s about foot binding. In a way, it’s historical pain. And the film was completely financed by the same savings from me and my sister. So I think we express everything we want to express. And we didn’t try to please anybody.
But after making the film, both me and my sister we actually started also doing some volunteers in the local mental health organizations. And I got to know the scope of this problem in the community. Also, I feel making this film, really I learned the healing power of art creation, but also I know the change cannot happen after one artwork, or after one film. It’s a long process. Jie also went through many relapse. But if you continue just pushing forward and no matter what as Jie said, not to give up, eventually change will happen. And it’s actually from the 10 years working for Cinevolution, I really learned that.
[56:19] MINAH: Yeah, life continues and relationship continues. Yeah, it was such a pleasure and yeah, my privilege to chat with you both. And thank you so much. I wish we have more time.
For more information about In Tanglement, and the list of resources for information mentioned in this episode, including links to learn more about the film Sisters, and Ying’s recent documentary film, The World is Bright that features the story of Shi Ming, and more, please visit cinevolutionmedia.com/podcast
In the next episode of In Tanglement, we’ll hear from an all Asian drag family: The House of Rice. Three members from the house, Van Dang, drag name Shay Dior, Kendall Yan, drag name Maiden China, and Romi Kim, drag name Skim. They talk about representation, racism and redressing of their identities.
This episode was lead produced by Minah Lee, with assistance from Yun-Jou Chang and Rebecca Wang. Editing and music by Leiwa. In Tanglement is produced by Cinevolution Media Arts Society and made possible with funding support from the Government of British Columbia. Thank you for listening.